This American Ride
This American Ride Podcast... Two Everyday Red-Blooded American men talking about everything and anything that pertains to you and our Country
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This American Ride
Navigating Life: Military Service and Family Sacrifices
What if a chance encounter could completely change the trajectory of your life? Meet Mark, a Marine veteran whose journey from a blueberry factory to a 22-year career in the military is nothing short of remarkable. In this episode, we uncover the pivotal moments that led Mark to enlist in the Marines right after high school, providing him with the structure and purpose he desperately needed. We reflect on our shared past and the environments that shaped our futures, diving deep into the decisions that defined our lives and the paths we chose.
From the close-knit camaraderie on naval ships to the profound impact of 9/11, this conversation takes you inside the unique life of Marines. Mark shares his experiences during his 2005 deployment to Iraq as an intelligence analyst, describing the intense challenges and critical tasks that defined his role. Whether it's navigating the tight quarters on naval ships or facing the realities of urban desert warfare, Mark's stories offer a raw and unfiltered look at military life. The bonds formed through shared hardships are palpable, highlighting the unwavering sense of duty and brotherhood that defines the Marine Corps.
Balancing a military career with family life is no easy feat, and Mark's story is a testament to the sacrifices and tough decisions that come with long-term service. As he transitioned from active duty to provide stability for his child, Mark reflects on the impact of frequent relocations and the importance of a stable environment during formative years. We also explore how the skills and values from military service translate into civilian pursuits, from mastering the art of barbecue to maintaining lifelong friendships forged through shared experiences. Tune in to hear a powerful narrative of resilience, unity, and the enduring bonds of those who serve.
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Welcome back to this American Ride podcast, where we talk about issues that affect you, the average American. What's up? Welcome back to the show. I'm George here with Bert, this American Ride podcast, and we've got Mark in the studio today.
Speaker 2:Hey y'all.
Speaker 1:What's up, mark? Mark is somebody we go way back with and we're going to talk a little bit about your service, joining the military, kind of life in the military, and then the transition that you've made out into civilian life to be an entrepreneur. Oh great, yeah, let's get into it Me amo Bernardo, me amo Bernardo. That great, yeah, let's get into it. May I'm a Bernardo, may I'm a Bernardo. That's Bert, hi. So um real quick, um a little history. You were in the sixth Marine regiment, right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And, uh, you were deployed with the U S department of state and then you were an operations chief and intelligence analyst, correct?
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:And quite a long time. How many years were you in 22 years?
Speaker 2:All right, 22 years Damn 22 years. Off and on, off and on, so I got in. I came in right after high school 94.
Speaker 1:So 94, right, the wonder years, the wonder years, the wonder years, uh, what made you? What made you at that point? You know, we all got out of high school, we had a lot of guys. We had a lot of guys enlist. Um, what made you at the age, I assume, 18? Were you 18 or 17?
Speaker 2:uh, I think I was, yeah, 18. I was one of the older ones, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, what made you enlist at 18?
Speaker 2:18, looking back.
Speaker 1:No skills. Almost 50 years. Yeah, that's probably what it was. Almost 50 years Come on 50 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know, it was a myriad of a few things right. One, I mean the main thing no direction. You know I wasn't, you know like I was, you know a decent grade as you guys can probably attest.
Speaker 3:You know I was in a decent or average, probably below that, below average. We don't call decent grades below average.
Speaker 2:True um, yeah, so I, you know, I can remember going back uh well, it was a junior, was our summer for our senior year working at the blueberry blueberry uh factory there packing frozen blueberries, oh boy. And a bunch of other shenanigans, oh boy. This is about you, not me. I'm just saying I gotta, I gotta paint a picture, right, you know like a birmingham, I gotta paint the birmingham here.
Speaker 2:But uh, yeah, it was you. Like you know I was misguided and, like a lot of the hellions out there, you know, looking for something to do. Really, school wasn't for me, you know, and you know it was just, you know, centering my attention and you know, and studying and doing all that stuff. I just I didn't, just didn't gravitate to it.
Speaker 2:I needed, you know, something more of the out outside, hands-on, um action type Um, you know, not, I'm not trying to be a superhero or nothing like that, but it just I more hands-on. And um, remember that summer, um, going into my senior year, working at the blueberry factory there, and you know this Marine, this gentleman comes in his Deltas and I was like, is this a cop coming to look for me? You know, I paid no mind. I was up on the scaffolding there throwing some frozen blueberries into a shaker and the boss was like, hey, like hey hats, this guy's looking for you. I was like, oh shit, I'm going to jail. So you know, I come down, long story short, end up having a conversation with the gentleman and, uh, is he a recruiter? Yeah, he was a recruiter, marine recruiter and he came to the came blueberry joint looking for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he came to the blueberry joint and, uh, that's probably after I got fired, yeah, and that was.
Speaker 2:I mean, no, I think you were still there. We got poisoned ivy after that. So so, uh, you know, the rest is history basically. Uh, you know he came in, we talked a couple times, went there, you know, did some paperwork and, um, you know, ran some, some physical fitness activities and things like that, just to kind of get some see where I was at, and I was like you know what this will be good, I think you know, to get me out of town, get me away from my situation. To be honest with you, I think you know if I had stayed I'd either been dead or in jail. You know, just scrapping and just running with the wrong crew. You know, and you know, truth be told, I think it saved my life Really to be honest with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It went to bootcamp and you know the rest was history.
Speaker 3:I mean, I hung out with you. I didn't think I was that bad of a guy.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, we had some good friends. Listen, I had some good friends but there was a terrorist choice moments. But there was a terrorist choice, choice moments there was.
Speaker 1:I mean it was listen young people decisions is all we all make bad decisions as 18, 19 year olds, I mean the track record, the track record of people from around the mills. It was kind of 50, 50. I feel like either you found a way to get out of there and do something or you're still there today, you know, doing nothing. Doing well, I mean living life, obviously, but not right, right I mean it's not doing much.
Speaker 1:It's not a prolific. It's not a prolific place to live is, and I grew up there. I love it. It was. I feel like it was a much different place. Pemberton was I I feel like I looked at it when we were younger is a much different place than I look at it today.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, is it any different?
Speaker 2:I, I, I don't know your my, my view on it, my view is different. Yeah, yeah, so, but yeah, I mean, I definitely, you know, I, I, I, I mean, I think you know, if I had to do it all over, I, I'm, I hope I may, I would have hoped I would have made the same decision.
Speaker 3:So so you, you, you enlist in the Marines, you go down, you do bootcamp. Was that 94?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:You obviously you know you get through bootcamp what. Where are you off to after bootcamp? What?
Speaker 2:happens. Yeah, so after bootcamp, um, you know you still go to uh additional training, which is uh, soi, uh school of infantry, uh, which really was right next door to you, know where I was at, down to Paris Island, um, so, uh, came home for about 10 days. They give you you have to bootcamp, they give you that 10 days of Liberty. Come home, see your family, check in, make sure everybody knows you're alive, because basically, I mean you, just you graduated high school I think 40, I think it was about four or five days later. You know, I'm off on an airplane and I'm leaving.
Speaker 2:Like you know, for the most part and those that have been in the military can, you know, relate to this is that you know everything you've ever known growing up. All the way up to that pinnacle of you know, graduating high school is you've been at home with your family, your friends, and then the next thing you know you're, you're, you're gone and you're gone for you know, for a while, and uh, it's just like, oh shit, where'd he go? And, um, you know you, you come home, you got to check in and I think that was, I think it helped out a lot.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, I came home for about 10 days and then right back to a school of infantry right back down in North Carolina and that was some more intensive training, and then from there is where you kind of like you know, you get into your MOS, you get shipped out to your first duty station, which was two, six, for me, six Marines, six Marines, second battalion and a fire team leader. So, like I don't, I don't know what that is. I mean somebody not being, you know, not knowing that much about the Marines in general. Um, explain to people like what, what is a fire team in the Marines? And like what is it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean, um, you know, for those out there to understand and those that don't, I mean, basically you got a platoon of Marines. You know you got four squads and then each squad's got a, you know, got three fire teams in it and you know that fire team leader is the guy who leads his. You know his, his Marines, but you know you got your chain of command and you report up and you know you talk to your squad leader as the next person in line and after that your platoon sergeant and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:How many Marines in a fire team? It's like four.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's like a tight-knit group, like a unit that you guys function as.
Speaker 3:So, you were like the captain of the four guys.
Speaker 2:Not that much responsibility.
Speaker 3:No, the fire team leader, wasn't that? What did you do as a fire team leader? Wasn't that you didn't? What did you do as a fire team leader? How are you any different from anybody else on the fire team?
Speaker 2:it's. It's small unit leadership. You know you manage your marines. You know, and then you check into the next higher up and you just keep accountability your marines you know. That's basically what it is is making sure that they're doing. You know what they need to do, their training and you know make their personal issues and things like that. You know it's small unit leadership.
Speaker 1:So they have that, they have that like responsibility broken down by, like, piece by piece by piece, Right All the way down to the four guy unit Right.
Speaker 2:And with you know more rank comes more responsibility. But that's how they kind of start you off. You know, you start off with you know a few Marines If you could take care of each other. And you know, and you do what you need to do. You move up in rank, you get more responsibility.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So how long were you a Marine before you were set off out of the U? S?
Speaker 2:Not long, not long I mean. I I think right after SOI I joined two six with a few months. We were, you know, we were working up and I was right on a Navy ship, the Mediterranean, doing grid squares. You know just training and doing, you know non-evacuation operations. You know in different countries and you know enjoying ship life for about six months on a ship.
Speaker 1:I feel. I feel like when people think marines, they don't. They don't think about about being on a boat like that. You know what I mean. They don't know about what the word marine not a boat.
Speaker 3:It's marine in general.
Speaker 1:I I get it. But I mean when you, when you think, like when I don't think marines, I mean I don't, you know, boats aren't necessarily a thing to come to mind I mean I more think like tip of the spear, because that's you know we're amphibious, right, so we got to we're.
Speaker 2:you know we need to be. We need to be in the water. You know, in the Navy, that's where we get our paychecks Navy pays our paychecks.
Speaker 2:So you know we're just that department that goes way back in, uh, you know early times where, where we were guarding their ships, you know for mutiny. And then, uh, you know, now here we are and you know there are people look at it, make fun and say, oh yeah, we're just the uh, you know, the passenger ship for you to get you where you're at. You know, and I mean it is, but it's a good community. I mean we tease each other when we're out. You know training and doing things and you know it's like like you're like your brother you know, what I mean.
Speaker 2:I can, we can mess with each other, but if somebody else does, it's no good. Yeah, I mean so, but um, it's, uh, it's definitely tight quarters, you know, and it's a well old machine too. I mean, uh, you know the our Navy brother and sisters are doing their their when we're you know when, when we're underway under, when we're on ship, you know, and you know things need to be done, the chores, if you will. You know, everybody's got their tasks right. So everybody's doing our thing. You go through the P ways and up and down the stairs and a ladder wells is what we call them. Everybody's running and gunning and doing our thing until lunch and until dinner. Um, everybody's got their load to carry.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And that's a well-walled machine, but it is tight quarters.
Speaker 1:No, thanks. So that was, that was 94, and you said you had two stints, right? So how long were you? Four years in the first time, right? So I?
Speaker 2:did? Uh, what did I do? I think I did four and a half years the first time, got out for a couple of years, then 9-11 happened and then I went back in. I went back in.
Speaker 1:So did you re-enlisted after 9-11? Was that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, yep. So I got with my prior recruiter service because I was prior enlisted, so you don't go back through the regular channels Um, and they helped me get back in and basically, um, you know, after being out I think I was out for about three, three and a half years, um, when nine 11 happened and then, um, you know, I was just like you know no way I got to. I got to get back in there. So I had to get my financials and, you know, I think I I owned a house at the time and, um, you know, I had to get things situated before I went back in.
Speaker 2:But that was the first call as soon as 9-11 happened, was I assumed that, you know, because I was on inactive reserve, that I was going to get called back in? I think we were still at that point trying to figure things out. I never got the call. So I just, you know due diligence just went in and said, hey, you know, I want to, I want to go back and we make this happen. Just went in and said, hey, I, you know, I want to, I want to go back and can we make this happen? So I went back in and finally it came to fruition and um, you know they, I got a contract and they said, yeah, well, we'd love to have you back.
Speaker 1:I went back in. So at that point you were married. You and Nicole were not married. We were not married yet.
Speaker 2:We were dating at the time and you know I I basically said, you know, listen, this is. You know, I'm sorry, this is what I got to do. I was ready to give her the house, and you know, and just kind of pack my duffel bag and all my cause I still have my Marine Corps issue, you know and I was ready to just just go. You know, I just felt this sense of duty.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and so I was, you know, and she was just like oh, you know, I'll go with you. I was like are you sure? And she was like yeah, so she was pretty hell bent on it, and so I said okay, well, let me, I'll, I'll go and do what I needed to go do and if you know, if you're really about it, then this will test you. And she was tested and you know she ended up following me right where, where I was going.
Speaker 1:So it's awesome.
Speaker 2:It's a nine 11, man.
Speaker 3:So when you came out I remember you came out to Chatsworth when, when Carol and I were living out there- yeah. That was after you got out in between, was that that was like in between, like 2008.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, that was right. Yeah, it was not right after. It was actually right when I went back in in 05 the second time. So you went in at 05. Excuse me, yeah, yep, I went back in in 05. Okay, yep, so I just got back.
Speaker 3:I must have been home I can't remember what you yeah, you must have been home for leave but I know you had nicole with you.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, so we so that's when we got engaged, was in 05. Okay, when I went back in, so that's where.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was the chat I think it was later in that, because I was chatsworth from no you're right, it was. I was out there in 05, yeah so I was probably home on leave.
Speaker 2:And we got together and I try to do that when I'm home, on leave, I try to link up, because it's usually far and few between when I'm away. And if you remember going back when we grew up, I mean we were tight.
Speaker 2:I mean not just you and I, but our network, yeah, yeah, yeah, we were tight, and when I'm away it's hard to explain if you haven't been there and done that, but it's like time stops. You know what I mean and like all of that, the memories and the good times and this stuff that we used to do, you know, football, baseball, wrestling and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:When I left it, it it froze for me, for a lot of other people it just time it, they. They kept living, yeah, and that was something I really never came to terms with or never really figured out, you know. And when I came home it confused me because the reaction wasn't the same.
Speaker 2:If you can understand that for a minute so it was just like time froze and you know I come back home and it's just like I assume everybody's like right where we left off, but it's not and it was kind of disappointing and um, you know. But but you know the connections are, I think they've never really changed, like even you, like us, you know, like like it seemed like we were able to pick right up where we're left off?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and most, most of them are.
Speaker 2:But there's others that you know. You kind of regret because you know things unsaid or you know time moves on and they don't feel the same and it's just like you lose some of those old relationships and it's tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's life moving man.
Speaker 3:That is some kids. You know some bad decisions. You're away from like yes, home. So for you everything like froze as far as what's going on at home, but for everybody that's still at home life's going on. Things are changing crazy fast. And you're gone. You know years and people are changing.
Speaker 2:You know we were we're kids when you left you know, and then when I came home, I came home to men yeah, I mean so with all kinds of different circumstances, you know, and some not, as willing to pick up the friendship where it was and others were, you know.
Speaker 3:So it just, yeah, it's kind of crazy like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, coming from that town, you all knew somebody who was in some way affected by substance abuse. I mean yeah that changes a lot too.
Speaker 2:I mean a handful.
Speaker 1:It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a real thing and I think you know when you're, you know away and you're a marine when, for the most part, like the straight and narrow, I mean, you're listed, you know, yeah, I mean, and you come back to, you know a four-stop light town of people working, you know jobs, trying to make ends meet and 50 hours a week and supporting a kid, probably that, if they're not living with because they never got married to the woman they had it with, I mean that's a big part of the story of the town, right?
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, there was a. There was a time I uh, yeah, I remember my mom called me. I would say, you know, for a small, small time, there was probably about every once a month she was calling me. Let me know, a friend passed overdosed, yeah you know, on under the influence driving and getting crashed and died and uh, you know, we, we lost quite we, we lost a handful. We lost a good bit of friends from high school. Yeah, you know, and that's to your point you know it's.
Speaker 1:We lost, yeah, we lost a lot of people who had a lot of people, who we've lost a number of people in the past, like two years, I feel like yeah, even as grown adults, the substance abuse. So it's like.
Speaker 2:Still at this age, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Doesn't let go. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Does not let go.
Speaker 1:You, yeah it's crazy, does not let go. You guys are depressing, I know. Anyway, speaking, speaking, yeah, let me liven it up. I wanted to get back, though. I want to get back to 9-11. Um, you and I I don't know we haven't really talked like I don't know where, where you were the morning of um when that happened. I know I was.
Speaker 1:I had a day off, actually, I was off that day and we're getting ready to go mountain biking and with a couple of friends and who we all worked together and phone rang. They were like now you gotta, you gotta, come to work. We don't know what's going to go on. I was working at Helene fold and Trenton at the time and um, and like a minor, like a minimal invasive surgery unit, and they were canceled all the procedures. But we need staff. We don't know, we don't know what you know, we don't know if we're going to get people. We don't know. We don't know anything right now. And um, and the air base one of the air bases I think it was was Dover shipped up like emergency burn units up Turnpike and you know, I helped on emergency like burn uh packs and stuff that we unloaded and we never got anybody. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously you were not enlisted, but no like what was going through your mind the morning and the morning of 9-11, when you, uh, when you saw those towers hit?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, um, it was, that was a, I mean it, I mean it was shocking. All I mean it happened here on, you know, on our soil, our soil, uh, first off, but I mean uh, where, I mean where I was at. I mean you know, I w I was um on the golf course at the time. Um, danny and I were out there.
Speaker 3:What the hell were you doing on the golf course?
Speaker 1:You doing a job. It was a beautiful morning. It was listen, it was, it was. It was a gorgeous morning. It was a gorgeous morning, so both of you clowns were off when I was working.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know a friend of ours. You know Danny Bata. You know we were. We both did recently. You know he was Navy. He just kind of got out not so long ago. You know our enlistments and we were home and just took advantage of the day we went down I think it was Jaworski's course actually and down there playing you know 18 holes. We got done with the first nine and was just like got this eerie feeling like where the fuck?
Speaker 2:where's everybody at. You know like, all right, we got done nine holes, let's go get a hot dog and a drink. You know we get in a clubhouse and that's where everybody was at. Oh shit, the fuck's going. Everybody staring at the damn tv screens and all you saw was, you know, plumes of smoke and just the. You know CNN or whatever was on the TV at the time. And you know we kind of walk up and we're trying to make our way closer to the TV sets and get some sound. Figure out what the hell's going on, because everybody in the golf course was in the clubhouse I mean, it was standing room only and we're trying to read the fine print and his phone's ringing. My phone's ringing Cause, literally, we both just got out of the military.
Speaker 2:You know our families were calling. You know. You know military friends were calling and everybody's up. We didn't know what to expect. What was going on. My mom's crying on the phone. She's asking me are you going back in? I'm like, yes, I don't even know what's going on. I'm out, give me a minute to process. And I see what's going on on the TV and I was like, oh my goodness, I mean just jaw-dropping and I don't even think Danny and I finished 18.
Speaker 2:I think we left after the night. We were literally trying to figure out what was going on. We got in the car and the whole time we just rode back home in silence. Yeah, I couldn't imagine trying to figure out finishing nine more after that. I don't know, not at all, man. I mean we just were trying to figure out, like, what does this mean? Why, like, just so many, so many questions? You know we get back home.
Speaker 2:You know I get to my car, he goes back home. I get, I go back home and we're just trying to figure things out. I'm waiting for a phone call because literally, I'm thinking I'm an active reserve at the time. I'm thinking I'm going to get a phone call and I'm leaving. Um, you know, so I spent a day with you know, with family, and uh, my, my sister at the time was very young and, um, you know, my brother and stuff and uh, we're just like trying to figure out what's going on. And then for like 24, 48 hours, nothing, and then a week goes by, nothing and that's the back to the point of my prior recruiter, prior recruiting recruiter service. You know, I was just like, hey, listen, I haven't gotten a phone call yet. What's going on Like? I want to go back.
Speaker 3:I got to.
Speaker 2:I got to. You know, stuff's happening, let's, let's let's sign some papers, let's get it right. Stuff's happening, let's, let's, let's sign some papers, let's get it right. Yeah so, but yeah, very I mean it was an eerie, eerie, eerie day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was, uh, yeah, they say, and we talk about this all the time. Like you know, they always said never forget. And and I say that that never like, like. How could you forget? I always say until you see this generation of what we're going through now.
Speaker 2:I mean think of our generation, I mean think of us when we were in school, growing up and it was different every year all through high school. Like what panic. What emergency other than, I think, the space shuttle?
Speaker 1:We had the Challenger. We had the Challenger, the Challenger exploded.
Speaker 2:It was the only thing I remember being on tv, fourth or fifth grade. Yeah, that was impactful. Yeah, we weren't. We weren't ready for that. We weren't.
Speaker 1:That was I mean, well, to your point, I feel. I still feel like we're not ready for something you know. But I mean that's a yeah, that's that's, that's another conversation, so you re-enlisted. But I mean that's a yeah, that's that's, that's another conversation, so you re-enlisted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I yeah.
Speaker 1:Now did you deploy. After that Did you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, very, very soon after I got back in, yeah, so, so the reason for the delay was so, when I originally went in the Marine Corps, I was in the infantry with 311 and basically just, you know, just a gun toting grunt, um, you know. So I thought, did some thinking while I was out at the time I was like if I had to do all over again, I would probably try to do something different. You know, try to do, set my career path for something that life eventually will end for me as a marine. What does that look like? Where do I want to go? So, uh, I always said, oh, I'll let move, I would let move, cause I, I did a little stint on a embassy duty, yeah, so I was. That was early on though, right yeah.
Speaker 2:That was my first. My first time.
Speaker 3:I remember that Cause that's when I was in college and we were still in touch with each other. Yeah, not like that, but so I was.
Speaker 2:I was you, I was a Marine security guard and what that means is I guarded American embassies overseas and some of the people that I met and the networking and stuff like that. So I just had this idea of wanting to kind of move into intelligence. And it was a little intriguing being in an analysis and kind of, you know, putting those puzzle pieces together. You know, building that puzzle of you know unknowns and you know, and trying to make that picture for a commander's decision, you know, intrigued me a little bit. So when we got to that point with the prior recruiter, server recruiter I was like, you know, I just want to let move. So I'd do some paperwork, I'd take a test, had to write a letter to the headquarters, marine Corps, and uh, lo and behold, luckily for me, that they accepted, you know, and all my, all my, you know my ASVAB scores were right. You know they accepted my letter. I told them kind of like you know, hey, this is what I've been doing since I've been out, this is where I kind of see myself going, and you know they, um, you know they accepted it and I I went right in and they said, okay, contingent on you, uh, passing Intel school, which was in Virginia beach. So I said, all right, good to go down to Virginia beach.
Speaker 2:So now we're in 2005 and you know, I'm, I'm, I'm leaving, got my backpack, you know, packed, I leave, I go down to North Carolina. I check into a second, second Intel division, or second Intel, and they were like, okay, well, you're only here until we're going to send you to Intel school and if everything goes well, you'll come back here. But we're already going to be in Iraq. So if you pass and everything's good, you're going to follow us there. I said, all right, good to go. So I get to Virginia Beach and you know I do my time there and you know, pass, flying colors, no issues, no problems, everything was good there. You know, I got to keep my rank. I was an E5 when I got out. So I got to keep my rank when I went going back in. But the only stipulation was I had to start over, which means I had to start all my you know primary education over. It's like being promoted to an E5 and I'm starting at the beginning.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So all the accolades, all the things and you know hurdles that I had to jump to make it to E6 is basically starting over. So I pass, everything's good. I graduate, I get back to Camp Lejeune, I get my gear and I'm off to Iraq. And I was there for six, six months seven months.
Speaker 1:It was not the best time to be in Iraq. No and 2005, but, real quick.
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Speaker 1:Sweet, all right. So we were just deployed to Iraq 2005. It was a hot year, and not by weather either.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it might have been warm there.
Speaker 2:It probably was warm, but pretty pretty busy, pretty pretty heavy fire fighting going on, yeah it was um but now you're, you're in intelligence at this point yeah, so I'm an intelligent analyst at this point so are you doing anything that's got you in anything hot and heavy um other than just you know being on, uh, you know, for operating bases and stuff. I mean you would get, you know, some indirect fire every now and again, mortars being lobbed over you know, the fence every now and again.
Speaker 2:You know a couple guys would be out there and you know, transitioning from you know their their um, their quarters to their workplace and getting hit with shrapnel and stuff like that, um, you know. But, yeah, I mean, unless you know you're out tasked with a, you know an infantry team patrol going out and collecting Intel. You know what I mean. You're pretty good to go.
Speaker 2:So my first year over there basically was just, you know, come in there. You know, get, get acclimated. You know you're a brand new analyst, um, get with the team, figure out what's going on. Of course, you know I got some rank at the time, so it's not like I'm the low guy on the totem pole. But, um, you know I am in a, you know, in a fusion center. You know, basically in a hardened building, um, you know a bunch of screens and some computers and we're down, we're in there and we're just knee deep in data. We're just really trying to sift through all this information and try to figure out what's going on so we can put this puzzle piece together for our commanders and people that are making the decisions. That's really what it's about is trying to get to the truth, figure out what's going on, so they can make an informed decision.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know so.
Speaker 1:Cause those decisions depend on where you're sending people, and that's right If it's a lot of responsibility. If you, you know, misread something or you're making decisions upon, I guess, incomplete data sets which a lot of times I'm sure you had to you could send guys out to get in a lot of trouble. I mean not you specifically, but you know people are making decisions to send people out into harm's way based upon that. That's a tough gig.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a tough gig.
Speaker 1:Especially like in 05, because 05 was the election year, yep.
Speaker 3:So there was, I I'm sure, a lot, which was that? Who was up for that?
Speaker 1:um, that's when they held the elections in iraq? Oh it was. It was in 05, so 5 they had the elections they had solder, not our elections not our elections. Solder city, I mean, I think, is the other big one that comes to uh yep and you got all the religious.
Speaker 2:You know religious holidays and I mean I think is the other big one that comes to uh, yep, then you got all the religious. You know religious holidays and I mean there's multiple reasons of why you know they just were acting out and doing things and explosions and patrols are going out and you know people just it was, it was havoc out, there was a lot of you know a lot of grimy shit yeah yeah, so how long?
Speaker 1:how long was uh that deployment for?
Speaker 2:so, uh, I think we came back in about april of, uh, oh, six. At that point you know, and of course what you know for us what that meant was come back home. You know you get a couple days about, you know a couple weeks off, or you know, rest and refit. You know, get some couple of weeks off, or you know rest and refit. You know get some leave time in visit your family and friends, and it's right back to training. You know you're right back at it, you're training, you're running and gunning, getting ready to go back over for another seven. I think we were on like a rotation.
Speaker 3:What kind of training? Like when so now you're in Intel. What kind of training are you?
Speaker 2:doing yeah, training, or are you doing yeah, so it's more like uh, it's not so much into. I mean you're doing intel training and you know getting your battle rhythms and stuff together.
Speaker 2:But you know you're out in the field, you know you're camping and so doing the basic marine type basic training stuff rifle training and stuff like that, weapons training, weapons handling, things like that, um, um, just, you know, putting ourselves in scenarios that we may or may not be in if we're out there, right, so, covering all the wickets, making sure that Marines are prepared to go out there and fight if they need to.
Speaker 1:I mean, the reality of it is you're still a Marine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at the end of the day, you're a rifleman, right? So, shit, storm happens, bad situation, worst case scenario they invade the base, we get overrun. Well, you got to put your computer down, you got to pick up your rifle and your K-bar and you got to fight.
Speaker 3:So at this point, are you guys starting to adapt to the different kind of war that it is? This is where we're getting into a desert. We hadn't really been in anything like this. There was the Desert Storm stuff and whatnot?
Speaker 3:Desert Storm, a storm, but now this is urban like you're like urban desert, urban desert you know, middle eastern type stuff which is very new to to what you know the us is dealing with. You know and I mean is your training, adapting to that at that point, or are you still just doing the basic?
Speaker 2:stuff. No, I mean, our training was adapting to some of the, you know, the ttps that you know the insurgents were, you know, and introducing into the battle space. You know, as you know, early on we weren't really, we were on patrols. We're doing our thing and then, next thing, you know, you know, we're getting hit with ieds, right, the, uh, the explosive devices that were hidden and stuff in the roads and, um, improvised, um, in a myriad of different things, and we're like, oh crap, you know. So then we started doing other things to, you know, to overcome those TTPs, and, you know, just kept evolving and evolving and evolving. And that's basically what the training, um, you know, encompassed every time we came home is like adapting to the new ttps, tactic, techniques and procedures. Um, you know, so there's just like so much of ieds in the rows and they were starting to hide them in carcasses and you know other myriad things that you guys have seen on the news and been reading about. So we would come home and train for those events. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because you hear, like with like for me watching so many of the people I follow, like currently these days on social media, the SF guys that are, you know that were, you know the seals or you know the, the green braids guys, like that.
Speaker 3:There's, and there's a lot of names of big name guys that are doing cool stuff on social media now, but they always hear them telling the stories about what they were doing and it always seems like in their stories it's the Marines that were the ones taking the heavy casualties. You know, in that timeframe, like they're the ones that, like they were kind of trying to back up and help but and you guys were obviously helping them too, but it would seem like it's always the marines that were like taking the heavy casualties. And I just wondering if, like, when you were out there, like, if that was how it was, if that's what was going on, if there was a lot of your guys, your marines you know, because that's obviously your guys there's all kinds of different units and and military in in the battle space but, like, as a, was that like what was going on? Was there? Was there a lot of heavy? You know, were Marines taking a lot of the?
Speaker 2:bullets? No, I wouldn't say that that would be the case. I think you know everybody that was out there during that time, doesn't matter what uniform you were wearing. There was a. There was significant loss on all sides, all sides. Yeah, um, you know our mission and you know green berets or any special operations units that are out there.
Speaker 3:We all, all had our own missions, yeah and I don't mean yeah, I don't mean marines like you guys sucked and you were getting tore up.
Speaker 3:I mean like taking it that way any of the, not just marines, even army, like the guys that aren't, like the special special forces guys that are doing all the you know the crazy stuff, like you guys are doing the real grunt work and the. Then you know the patrols and all those things like those seem to be like the ones that really were, like would get hit, which, like the shit you know, and get beat up a little bit. Yeah, I mean, if you were out and there were.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes there was times of the day and even you know, and get beat up a little bit. Yeah, I mean, if you were out there were, you know, sometimes there was times of the day and even you know, like I said, there are holidays and stuff where you know fighting was a little worse. You know casualties were taken but I couldn't say there's nobody that was taking any more casualties than if you were out there. You know, not one unit or not one service, if you will, was taken any more than anybody else.
Speaker 2:Everybody that was out there was was putting her time in and uh, you know was, you know was running and gunning and and putting it in, putting her work in yeah, it was a rough couple years for for the iraq war.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, when you talk fallujah, you talk sadr I. I mean, you know, when you talk Fallujah, you talk Sader. I mean those were, you know, heavy fighting places, oh yeah, and uh, I mean tough for anybody to be in. And it wasn't just Marines that were involved in those Right, it was a, it was a lot of army too.
Speaker 2:I mean, those guys are an the branches out there, you know, yeah, coast guard too.
Speaker 1:Huh, yeah, we don't think about that, not at all. Yeah, you don't think about that. I think of coast guard. Is the coast guard like guarding us territories?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean they, they have they have analysts too, and you know there's sometimes you know, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, cause you're in a, they wear a different uniform, different service, doesn't mean you're not helpful, yeah, so yeah, it's cool, cool, cool to see people view things that way, cause I think from the outside you don't always you don't always get that you feel like the army guys are the army guys and the Marine guys and Marine guys and the air force sleeping marriott and that's listen, the chair force is useful too.
Speaker 3:Man, leave them alone.
Speaker 2:I mean, we all, we poke fun at each other. This is going back to like I said.
Speaker 3:You know we, we poke fun at each other, but if somebody else does, it's you get punched in the mouth yeah, you know, but service is service yeah, that's the way I view and I hope you know everybody else views it that way well, I think, not having been there, I would assume that you know when lives are on the line, it doesn't matter, yeah, it doesn't matter, and everybody's wearing that flag patch. You know theoretically so, yeah, I can definitely see how it doesn't. It doesn't matter at that point.
Speaker 2:Everybody's, everybody's there for each other yeah, it's one team, one fight, team, one fight.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, we and we have a friend of ours who served in the air force and they, like you know I was talking to him one day about you know how he sometimes he'd be on the flight line, you know, with a, with a rifle, from guarding a plane. He's like it was the most useless rifle ever, because if they got to me holding my rifle they ran over the army, they ran over the marines, they ran over everybody in front of us. He says so, my rifle is done. At that point he would say you know, it's uh, it's a thing, it's crazy. So were on. You were saying, before we um got off there, you were seven months, seven months in country, seven months home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to say it's about what our rotation was. Yeah, yeah, it was about seven. I think it was like seven, five. Okay, we were home, we were away longer than we were home.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so it wasn't like an equal time.
Speaker 2:So you deployed more than once then yeah, I did three back to back. So the first time I went over we were out in like a Blue Diamond area of Iraq, and then after that I was in Fallujah last two times that I went over.
Speaker 1:So you were there for the second. Were you there for the second battle, or did you miss that?
Speaker 2:No, I was there. Yeah, oh oh. Five to oh. Eight is when I was. I was there three tours back to back to back.
Speaker 1:Oh, fallujah, there were two battles that Fallujah was split right back to back. But fallujah, there were two battles that fallujah was split right. So, okay, that was, that was. That was I mean the stuff I I feel like, of all of all, like the podcast and stuff, we listen and I've read a handful of you know people's books. Um, most of the books, obviously, apparently, I've read have not been the military guys, but have been either embedded journalists or right that type of thing, which were very interesting. Um, but when you hear, you know, some of these guys talk about fallujah, it was like all of a sudden, the rules of engagement were very different. When that, when those guys went into fallujah, it's like, at that point he's if you didn't realize, you know, if you hadn't been in heavy combat at that point, you didn't realize, you know. If you hadn't been in heavy combat, at that point, you didn't realize you know what this was. This was the most open rules of engagement that the Marines had seen in probably decades.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there were definitely a lot of years of, you know, heavy fighting and, you know, trying to.
Speaker 2:You know, bring the people in, that you know we thought we could trust, bring the people in, that you know we thought we could trust, and you know it was just, you know, just up the ups and downs and you know it just felt like every time you went over a little bit like you were starting over and then you get some you know some footing, um, you know, and then eventually it's just like, okay, well, you know, you kind of kind of just separate yourself, you know, so you can at least, when you come home, be be present, present, yeah, and and still be in tune and in touch with what's going on over there, cause you know, eventually you're going back over, right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean, it just there was, it was for me, it was, you know a lot of waves of ups and downs and you know tracking and keeping things and turn doing turnovers with our counterparts over there when we would go to over there. But you know, I kind of I kind of think that it started to lighten up a little bit, as I, you know, started my end of my tours there and you know, and then of course we all know that you know it is what it is now. So, yeah, a lot of a lot of money spent, a lot of a lot of blood lost, and you know there's, like I said, there's conversation for a lot of time, but yeah, which which would be great to have, but do you think we'll be back there?
Speaker 2:I hope for vacations.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not for any fighting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you want a vacation there.
Speaker 2:There probably not so much, but it would be a lot better than you know going over there for what we went over there for, you know, in the first place, yes, but realistically, yeah, I mean, come on now, you, you and I have talked politics do you do you do you see it just be?
Speaker 3:we're just out of the Middle East, or do you think, like something happened I mean we're already with this Israel thing and Hamas and Iran being involved Like we're already freaking? You know three or four toes in this anyway, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I assumed that I was going to be put on the spot and try to evade what I can evade.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't see how we're not going to be back there.
Speaker 2:Like I said, until we're ready to share it and just be happy with what we got, we'll never be there. I mean we're always going to be fighting it out. People don't get along with each other, you know fighting it out. You know people don't get along with each other. You got ideological differences and you know money and power involved and greed. I mean we're never it's it's. We're always going to be beating each other up, you're being so pc right now I know, yeah, he is.
Speaker 3:So I'm trying to figure out why, but it's. But I mean, I think if anything, if anything is, it's not hurting your barbecue business bro I feel like this is more about military.
Speaker 2:We're gonna get there we're getting there.
Speaker 3:We're getting there, man.
Speaker 2:We gotta go through all phases of mark man listen, I mean be at the end of the day. If I had to do it all over again, I would do it almost I know you would, almost would.
Speaker 1:You would, you've gotten out though no yeah wait the first time or second time?
Speaker 3:anytime, I would have stayed oh so you'd still be in now I would have stayed in, and you know if everything was wait now, I'm really confused.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would have stayed, there would have been no break.
Speaker 3:So why'd you get out and the second time there?
Speaker 2:was. You know, there was some 22 years.
Speaker 3:How many would you've done?
Speaker 2:there. No, I'm, I'm saying like I would. There would have been no break.
Speaker 3:I would have stayed yeah.
Speaker 2:And it got out in 95, 99. I got to be a general or something right now, I mean I got out 99, and that's when I came back in after nine 11.
Speaker 3:Do you have thoughts on the uh Afghan withdrawal pullout? No, thought you have.
Speaker 2:No thoughts, no what I try to do.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's I don't think, like you're held to any kind of secrecy or anything.
Speaker 2:No, there's not. I know there's no psychiatrist in here either.
Speaker 3:I had to. Well, I didn't know the dabble when I retired.
Speaker 2:I had to, just I had to do a reboot man, I had to do a reboot and only those that serve and been serving for a long time can.
Speaker 2:I don't understand what I'm talking about, but yeah, you know, when you get out some, some stay around it, you know, and I and everybody has their own way of dealing with. You know what they deal with, right, my way of dealing with it was well, I mean, the reason I got out one, because you know health issues and stuff like that, you know I got. You know stuff going on. You know degenerative discs, tbi, stuff like that. But um, having having a, you know stuff going on, you know degenerative discs, tbi, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But having a son, you know is coming into his. You know what they consider the. You know the good years of middle school, high school, coming into his. You know finding himself as a young teen. You know the doc told me one day it was in the office, he's just like listen, you can ride this out and if you do, this will be the last thing you ever do. But if you have any aspirations of doing anything else, you need to turn your papers in and get out because you're not going to last long. So I said, okay, well, I want to see my son grow up. I want to not move him around. This is my choice. You know I've had friends that stayed in and moved their families around and you know their kids. You know one, two years you moved a lot. Yeah, we did. But uh, you know, saw some of my friends like their kids did not graduate high school with their friends. You know.
Speaker 3:I mean like, yeah, in a high school for one year, one year only to graduate, yeah, I didn't know anybody that's tough, that is tough we we, we didn't deal with that as kids you know we didn't and I'm not we grew up together and all the way up through like we didn't have to deal with that, but that was.
Speaker 2:But we knew those kids yeah, but yeah, there was definitely kids coming and going for sure, growing up here at fort dix, new jersey, yeah, we had friends that like that you know, like we would see them one minute and be like where the hell did they go? But uh, but for me, for me I that's not something that I wanted my son to go through. So I decided that with my injuries and um, my issues and my son growing up, I said you know I'm gonna, I'll go ahead and I'll retire so you were, you still active duty when you were in colorado, yeah, and then you and you were in japan, right, and that was active duty too.
Speaker 3:You were in Colorado, yeah, and you were in Japan, right, mm-hmm, and that was active duty too, right, yes, okay, so you did that. You came back to Colorado, then you came back to the East Coast.
Speaker 2:Colorado, Japan, then came back to East Coast.
Speaker 3:Colorado, japan, then the East Coast, okay All right. Yeah, it's tough with a kid that age.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then the Marine Corps, you know, like some, like other than other, you know some other services, we, we we move around every three years, you know. So it's just like you start looking at, okay, what grades he in, how old is he. We move here, you start, you can kind of calculate all that and, um, you know, I just wanted him to kind of grow up like, kind of like we did, you know, with a core group of friends, do sports. He was, you know, heavy into football and I and you know football it's a, it's a team, it's a team sport, you know, and he wanted, needed a team around them. Being the new guy, the new kid on a football team every couple of years is no way for a young teenage boy to, you know, to, really, if he aspires to be a collegiate athlete, maybe one day in the NFL, there's really no way for him to kind of go through it being a new kid every couple of years, Unless you're a real badass, even if you're not an athlete.
Speaker 1:I mean to be at that age and have to Just switching schools so much Just switching schools, losing friends, constantly starting over with new friends. It's tough it's tough, no, and and, and you got out right that he was that age. I mean, yeah, you guys landed here in south jersey.
Speaker 2:I think he was like six starting sixth grade starting sixth grade like getting right into middle school.
Speaker 1:So if you.
Speaker 3:if you weren't, if you didn't get out for that reason, you could have stayed in and and kept on along Like there was no issue with like promotions and like needing to keep moving up to stay in.
Speaker 2:No, there was. I was literally, I just got promoted to, not just, I was a E8 for about two years when I made a decision. So it would have been, you know, it wouldn't have been too long before E9, but that would have been the pinnacle. Once I hit E9, I mean there's nowhere else to go. Yeah and um, really I decided that well, if I did stay in, you know all their, all the marine corps really does, you know, with the e9s is just kind of rotate them around the marine corps. You know you're at command levels. Um, you know you're the senior enlisted advisor to. You know colonels and generals and there's nothing after you know you can't nothing either.
Speaker 2:You can't master gunnery sergeant, is it? You can't like you know, colonels and generals, there's nothing after E9?.
Speaker 3:Nothing either. You can't Master gunnery sergeant, is it?
Speaker 2:You can't like you know Well for me, you can't be an officer the other side of the house would have been sergeant major. Yeah, so I went up. My MOS side, which was master guns, would have been E9.
Speaker 1:And so master guns and sergeant major, same rank One's administrative Master guns and Sergeant major, same rank, one's administrative, because at that point, like if you haven't gone to like an officer training school, you didn't have a college degree, I mean that's kind of where you were.
Speaker 2:So I mean, yeah, I mean if I didn't go warrant officer or go officer. I mean there was really no, you know, yeah, that was it. I mean where I was at more of an enlisted guy, you know being around my Marines manager, supervisor, leading Marines Not to say that officers don't I'm not saying that at all but they're more into the weeds making decisions doing. They drive the bus in this scenario.
Speaker 3:Very different.
Speaker 2:I'm the guy that keeps all the kids in their seats, gets them on and off the bus together.
Speaker 1:They're a bus monitor. A bus monitor.
Speaker 2:That's a great way of looking at it. So they drive the bus. But, um, no, I never really saw myself that way. I mean this goes back to the earlier discussion about how I came to be right, so school wasn't really for me. Yeah, you know, officers, you you got to be. You know you're top-notch man, you got to be studying, you got to gotta be. You know you're top notch man, you gotta be studying, gotta be a scholar. You know you gotta be reading things. You gotta be smart, you gotta be intellectual.
Speaker 3:And I know just from texting you that reading's not great for you. It's not a big. It's not a big. Phonics is not the strong suit. We'll just give you a gun.
Speaker 2:But I can definitely shoot, I could definitely shoot, I can definitely shoot Such a knucklehead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, at the time and now.
Speaker 1:I think I would have been the last group of people that if I had joined after I graduated nursing school, I could have gone in as an officer with the two-year degree, and the military has since done away with that. You now need a four-year degree to go in and be able to go through basic and then go through OCS.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I had some friends that did college while they were enlisted and moved up, and I'm good on that man, because it really takes a lot a heavy toll on you, your family, if you have a family at the time. But, putting in that study time after work every day and turning in papers in you know I condone those guys and much respect for a lot of those.
Speaker 2:You know even one of our buddies, mike. You know a trunk that we went to school with. He did that, you know, put some timing, got some school done, went warrant officer retired and um, you know better himself and I'm all about. Those guys are out there trying to better themselves and me I'm just a knuckle dragger, just a knuckle dragger.
Speaker 3:Listen, man, if I wasn't trying to play football, I would have been right there with you. If I could figure it out, I'll lose a few pounds, but that would have been my route too, Dude I didn't have nothing else, you'd have lost that in basic man They'd probably flown off, you know anything else blown off.
Speaker 3:To be honest with you, I thought about it I thought about it even after um finishing up playing at rowan um and, honestly, if I had any regrets in life is probably that I didn't yeah um, and you know, hindsight being 2020, looking back, like, had I done that, I never would have got with carolyn and I wouldn't be where I am now.
Speaker 3:But honestly, um, I really seriously considered it and and thought about doing it, even after being done college and football, like just joining. Then, you know, and I still, I still would have beaten, I still would be you know, 9, 11, like I would. That was the time frame we talked like 1999, 2000. That's right. Yeah, um, that I, I could seriously considered it. Um, just, I don't know why I didn't, but I, yeah, cause your dad, your dad did, uh, served, yeah, 20 in the army and uh and it's, you know, just because of that and the history there and really loving growing up on army bases and stuff, I, that's probably the route I would have went.
Speaker 3:I probably would joined the army in rp and you know, been there doing the same infantry grunt work. You know that you were doing on the, the marine side, but, yeah, um, I don't know why I didn't, other than just the lack of motivation, I guess, at that time, coming off of being done, playing football and doing the whole college thing and and kind of being done there and trying to figure out the next step, like I don't, I wasn't super motivated. And then, by the time you know, 9-11 happened. I was with carolyn and we were married and at that point I'm like now what?
Speaker 3:you know it's a big decision leaving and ditching her to go. Do that was this didn't. Just didn't seem right either. It just never happened. If I wasn't trying to play football coming out of high school, I got to have been right there with you.
Speaker 1:It's tough. My father served, my grandfather served. My grandfather was always giving the speech don't join, don't do it, don't join, don't do it. I did it, I did it.
Speaker 3:That's what I got from my dad.
Speaker 1:My grandfather was, you know, D-Day to the Rhine.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He was um you know two purple hearts.
Speaker 2:He was, he would hit he had a hell of a war, right. But you got to think about some of those experiences that you know those family members have had in those wars. I could understand why they told yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's not, but my father was absent. My father and my father had a very different military experience. My father was in pre-Vietnam, you know, post-world War II pre-Vietnam. He was in, you know, in Germany, on a Hawk missile site.
Speaker 3:Yeah, had a great time. How long did your dad? How long was your dad in he?
Speaker 1:was in four, four or five years. Okay, best times of his life. Had a great time. I had a great time. How long did your dad? How long was your dad in? He was in four, four or five years. Okay, best times of his life. Had a great time.
Speaker 3:They had a great time in the military, military's dope when there's no wars going on, especially in germany. I'm in germany doing october fest, especially in germany especially I spent some time in germany.
Speaker 1:It's, it's a good it was like he's, like we were. Just, you know, he was basically in the Alps, in the mountains, on a actually have the mug there, the Hawk missiles that they had. Then he was on a you know, man in a Hawk missile site and I had a group of guys and you know 20 missile sites that were part of their deployment and that was my first that was my first duty station as a embassy guard, it was uh, berlin, germany.
Speaker 2:I could see why people don't leave germany yeah, yeah, so disgusting.
Speaker 2:So tail end, tail end of your, your career in the marines you were doing what, where, yeah, so I was operations, intel, operations chief at uh, two mef, so basically up at the flagpole level, general level, uh, down at camp lejeune, um and um in the in the g2 and uh, yeah, I mean I was, you know we were, we were deploying, but we were really kind of just you know doing stuff, um, you know like in uh, norway and you know kind of just trying to foster our partnerships with some of our allied nations and things. Norway was cool dude, never been, and it was cold when we went, but give a shit, it was. It was a good time. Yeah, I was there with you know, with you know with Marines and I consider friends and you know we they were, they were, it was a good time. It was a real good time. They were, they were, it was a good time.
Speaker 2:It was a real good time. I mean it was. It was a short, I think three, three months, four months. We were there, you know, just doing some operations, exercises and things like that. But it was a good time, good time. We had some time off. You know kind of got to get out in town a little bit, eat some of the food, eat some Graflox, take in some of the culture. I don't know about the food, though Food drinks. I've been to Epcot, norway Food drinks.
Speaker 3:Norway food in Epcot is good. Listen, don't hate on Disney, but Norway food in Epcot was not great. I bet it was. It was a lot of cold, dead fish, norway cheese was cold yeah, I mean hey man they were vikings bro people were great, awesome, I mean they were, I mean real hospitable.
Speaker 2:Food was good. You know, we hung out in town for a couple nights, um, I mean, it was just, it was, it was memorable that's cool, it was good.
Speaker 1:It's cool you get those experiences with all the shit that you guys went through to. You know you get to have a little bit of the good in your career. You know you can see Japan, I mean, and everybody.
Speaker 2:I'm hoping that you know, and this is only in- the 22 years man you better see something I'm hoping that everybody in their military career take the good with the bad um, there's got to be at least. I feel like they all got good stories, you know good stories anybody I've talked to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's shit stories, but yeah, there's also good stories. There's all the deployments that weren't that bad.
Speaker 2:You kind of know what you're getting into. You should know what you're getting into there's deployments that aren't that bad.
Speaker 3:You get to be with.
Speaker 2:You know your brother's bond hang out, get into the same bs that we were kind of doing in high school and that's kind of acting silly and doing stupid shit something we didn't hit on is the brotherhood man, and that's something that cannot be described or duplicated in any way in any way.
Speaker 2:I mean when you I mean people say like movies and you know things you read or whatever they talk about bleeding, you know things that you read or whatever you talk about bleeding, you know. And and fighting somebody or, um, sharing hardships with somebody. I have some of the closest relationships you know with friends that are Marines and service members that far surpass anybody like I grew up with. You know, just because not because we were in Iraq or not because we went to bootcamp together, but you shared so many experiences, yeah.
Speaker 2:Just that. It's that commonality, you know, and they I mean, I have buddies that keep in touch with me and the only place we ever were together we're in bootcamp. We didn't go to Iraq, we didn't fight together, we do nothing, we were just in bootcamp together.
Speaker 3:It's a pinnacle time, time in your life and they, you know they, they stay in touch with me. I think you hit the nail on the head. Shared, um, what was the word you use?
Speaker 2:shared hardships, you know going through it and and there's really nothing that compares to war yeah, you know, but shared hardships in general is going to create bonds yeah, because if you think about a sibling, right I mean you know you come from a broken family. You come from even I mean a good family, right it's. I mean those shared moments, all those years. That's what you know builds those bonds, keeps you tight shared hardships.
Speaker 3:I like that because obviously nothing is going to compare to war and battle and being in the military. But shared hardship Some of my greatest friendships are guys I played football with, you know, and you and you go through the grind with them and you go through the, the training camps and the seasons and and it's just. It's that camaraderie that's built through being in shitty situations, you know, and clearly not comparing that to to war and being in the military, but it's that similar. They've shared hardships, like whatever it is that does forge bonds for sure exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean even with people you might not otherwise have anything in common with. I mean even in nursing. You know critical care situations where you're trying to save somebody's life and you're on, you know you're on a team, you're in that shit doing that weekend, we got on the shit.
Speaker 1:And it's just, you know, you, you become close to those people that you do it with and it's just, uh, you know it's people and people that you probably wouldn't otherwise be close to, Right, you know and it you have a lot of connections from guys that you served with that.
Speaker 3:You stayed tight with they.
Speaker 2:Follow my you know again, eventually get into Fats. They follow me on Instagram.
Speaker 1:They follow me on.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn, you know, and other social media platforms Got that support. But yeah, I mean, even my old boss, my old colonel, you know, even though he's over in you know, germany or somewhere in Europe, you know he's still serving every serving. No, he's out, he's retired too, okay, but still serving in a civilian capacity but keeps in touch with me, shoots me a little shot across the bow every now and again for Father's Day or Christmas. My XO owns a franchise himself. So him and I both, even before we both retired at the same time, um, my XO, he was like, you know, I'm getting ready to get into the food service business too.
Speaker 2:He does, um, um, uh, taco is the name is. It's escaping me right now, but he does one of those franchise taco uh businesses down in North Carolina and he every now and again checks in on me and says what's going on. And a lot of my Marines check in and, you know, chime in and send a little text and say, hey, you know proud, you know whatever doing, send me a shirt, send me a hat, keeping an eye on you doing things like that. So you know, but a lot of love, you know keeping in touch and you wouldn't expect, I mean we were done, we served and you never even seen him in forever?
Speaker 1:Are you done, though?
Speaker 3:No, no, yeah no.
Speaker 2:I yeah, You're always. I would expect actually we and a lot of the service men and women will be like you know, I don't give a shit how old I am. If somebody ever calls me up, I'll put a gun in my hand.
Speaker 1:I'll be ready to go. I feel like, and I feel especially that way with Marines, I mean, it's, you guys are always serving, always serving.
Speaker 3:Well, at least we got you here. If we ever, if we're ever invaded, at least we got you here with us.
Speaker 1:Next week on the this American Ride podcast.
Speaker 2:You know, right after military life there's supposed to be a bit of time for pause Just to kind of, you know, decompress. And because I mean you got to understand that like we're a hundred miles an hour sending Marines off, welcoming Marines in, and they would always come to my house. I would host them, I would do barbecues and just kind of test things out on the Marines. And when I retired they always told me you need to do this full-time when you get out. Anybody who knows barbecue. It's about commitment, it's about time management.
